ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:31 pm

Because there's never enough mainline SMT stuff here.

https://youtu.be/h1Yx3X_0t7Y

Looking forward to seeing how the Polytheistic Alliance goes against the forces of Law and Chaos. Got a feeling it won't end well for them, haven't been shown any big names to be part of their group yet. Doesn't really help that the Devs are like "Here's Mermaid, she's a member of the Polytheistic Alliance" and it turns out she's a level 17 demon.
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:28 am

Welp, this is a thing that I keep forgetting is going to happen. That being said, I don't really mind when party members die/leave, but I'd honestly rather have them for a substantial amount of time...like, at least Aerith-levels. I didn't care much about her, but at least you have her for what amounts to a little more than a third of the game.

Yeah, this is going on my list of games to buy and play. Behind SMTIV, Nocturne, my current run of P3FES, Fire Emblem Fates (all three versions), Bayonetta and its sequel, and several Tales games (Symphonia 2, Xillia/2, Zestiria, and my current Hearts run). In almost that order.

On a side note, is it just me, or does Japan really hate Christianity? Like, at least half of the RPGs I've played are super anti-Christian. Every religion in a JRPG seems evil, but it gets really obvious when their leader is referred to as "Pope." I mean, it's obvious in a few Tales games (though some more than others), a number of Final Fantasy games, and of course let's not forget that SMT either really hates the (explicitly Christian) God, or doesn't mention Him at all.

It's not to say anything negative about the games themselves, most of them are really good games, but it just gets...weird, when everything that mentions religion goes out of the way to portray it as evil except for Golden Sun and a few other old ones.

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:51 am

It's not really that the Japanese hate Christianity (though a certain Shogun named Ieyasu Tokugawa and his purgings of Japanese Christians would have you believe otherwise), it's more of that it's a minority Religion in their land and they don't take it seriously as a result of that. Though, I don't think they take Shinto too seriously either, but don't take my word for that bit. So really, it's not out of hate.

For more information: https://youtu.be/MLhiWw3pzQk?t=8m40s

This conversation honestly reminds me of why I think Xenoblade is weaker compared to XenoGears... of course, there's a lot of reasons for that but I guess my love for mythology references in narratives done right is just too strong for my own good.
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  NebulaGregarZX on Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:00 am

Yeah, it's a noticeable thing. I guess it's just really easy to make a story out of, and they don't really care? I mean, what's more anime than fighting GOD HIMSELF? Look at Xenogears, for instance. The final boss is named Deus, there's references to religious terms - though messed up in the translation and with nothing to do with their sources - and there's even a church called the Ethos that's just the epitome of "We're a corrupt church that's planning to take over the world while the other factions are busy with other stuff" and managed to work in the pedophile Catholic priest stereotype. They're DICKS to Christianity in particular. They seem fairly happy with Gnosticism, though.

But yeah, it's a thing. Maybe religion just goes against the Japanese spirit? It's actually something I think about a lot, since it's so recurring.

Though among the games that seem okay with it are the Dragon Quest series. Though they make their god into a goddess (though that might just be the localization), and they can resurrect the dead easily enough, provided there's still a corpse at all.


EDIT: Dammit, got ninja'd. He made most of the same points as me, too.

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:43 pm

NebulaGregarZX wrote:though messed up in the translation and with nothing to do with their sources.

Emperor Cain, Merkava, Kadomony, and Babel Tower would like a word with you on that last part.
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  NebulaGregarZX on Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:07 pm

Not really the point, but if you insist, I'll argue that. Starting with how stupid it'd be if they'd gotten simple ones like Babel Tower and Cain and Abel wrong.

Point is, though, that they don't really care. Isn't that the same reason for them to be careless about their portrayals of black people?

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:27 am

NebulaGregarZX wrote:Not really the point, but if you insist, I'll argue that. Starting with how stupid it'd be if they'd gotten simple ones like Babel Tower and Cain and Abel wrong.

Point is, though, that they don't really care. Isn't that the same reason for them to be careless about their portrayals of black people?

Really didn't want to argue, just wanted to point out there was thought put into the names at times. And as for that last point, I am NOT even going to touch that one. No sir, not happening.
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:31 am

Okay...but one can fight any form of deity without the religious faction following said deity knowing that he/she/it is evil. It's kinda-sorta done that way in Tales of Symphonia, and inverted in Abyss, and played with in Hearts (sorry, I've been playing those games lately, thus why my avatar is currently Jade Curtiss).

In Symphonia, the church is evil because they're dicks, but they don't know what their supposed deity is or is doing. The Pope is a colossal asshole poisoning the king, but he isn't part of the actual evil faction, and everyone under him seems to fall under the "just following orders" category.

In Abyss, the being of worship is actually pretty cool in almost every way, but the order that follows it is willing to go along with, and even actively attempt the fulfillment of, a prophecy that predicts the slaughter of thousands, with a semi-separate faction that is actually humane and tries to use the prophecy as more of a guideline.

As for Hearts, the church isn't really evil, and the guy who runs it...isn't necessarily evil or anything, but he is a dick. Either way, between the church and the empire (who are at odds), the church is the one on your side...kind of. After a certain point. Before which they're both after your head. It's weird.

The running trend is that the person in charge of all of those organizations is a gigantic scumbag. I could leave it up to ignorance if I thought that was it, but all of those include such an organization. I suppose I'm just wondering why nobody in Japan, or at least the parts of Japan that we see here, ever gets the idea that religion can be good. It's either evil or not there.

Bah, never mind, really. Also, Xenoblade's story is laughably predictable...like, you could make a drinking game of "take a shot if you saw it coming." I don't know much of Xenogears (I've seen some of it, but not terribly much), but at the very least it seems more...not-pick-the-obvious-option-every-single-time....y. I can't say that with total certainty, but it's a game I'll get around to when I feel like playing Final Fantasy, but don't actually feel like dealing with the shortcomings of Final Fantasy (Tidus...Cloud (kind of)...Squall (to a lesser extent)...)

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:30 am

Haar_Dragon wrote:
The running trend is that the person in charge of all of those organizations is a gigantic scumbag. I could leave it up to ignorance if I thought that was it, but all of those include such an organization. I suppose I'm just wondering why nobody in Japan, or at least the parts of Japan that we see here, ever gets the idea that religion can be good. It's either evil or not there.

Bah, never mind, really. Also, Xenoblade's story is laughably predictable...like, you could make a drinking game of "take a shot if you saw it coming." I don't know much of Xenogears (I've seen some of it, but not terribly much), but at the very least it seems more...not-pick-the-obvious-option-every-single-time....y. I can't say that with total certainty, but it's a game I'll get around to when I feel like playing Final Fantasy, but don't actually feel like dealing with the shortcomings of Final Fantasy (Tidus...Cloud (kind of)...Squall (to a lesser extent)...)

Did you watch that bit I linked Haar? It kind of explains everything.

Oh God yes. Xenoblade's plot is just so laughable at times because of how bad the reveals are kept hidden. Anyone could write a book on how to NOT write an RPG after playing Xenoblade. Also, I'm going to say it, Xenoblade just should have been about Dunban and his crazy adventures at Sword Valley instead of Shulkamania running all over the Bionis. On the other hand, that would mean Dunban couldn't be joined by the other best character in the game, Riki.

Xenogears is DEFINITELY worth a play through. It's aged a little, but not too much to completely ruin it. Also, Fei Fong Wong is one of the best protagonists to come out of a Squaresoft game. Bar none. After all, what other RPG protagonist goes around punching monstrosities and robots with just his bare hands?
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:58 pm

Okay, fair enough, I just checked it out now, and it does go some way as to explaining things. I could go into the fact that there's never more than one religion and that it's always correct, but it doesn't bother me enough and I'm going to just boil it down to "Japan doesn't walk on eggshells to avoid being insensitive."

Oh yeah, Dunban's the best. Granted I still haven't met Riki, but I know about...several plot points that come after that point. And Shulk is bland as all hell and I don't care about him. Especially given that
Spoilers in case you care, but it's predictable as hell:
the Monado later becomes worthless, making Shulk not only boring, but equally useless

Fei Fong Wong is also a great name. As for punching monstrosities, I could mention Marcus Damon/Masaru Daimon from Digimon Data Squad/Savers, but that's an anime, not an RPG.

In other weird questions...what's up with all the belly-shirts? Like...Wakka (FFX), Reyn (Xenoblade), Regal Bryant (ToS), the list goes on. Why exactly do these people where clothes that cover their chest, but not their abs? Is it because the artist wants to draw abs, but not nipple-less chests? Because that's weird. I mean, it's kind of understandable in a case like Luffy (One Piece), because he's just wearing an open shirt. But when it comes back around to, say, Vaan (FFXII), I get confused...

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:44 am

I'd recommend checking out the LP for Breath of Fire II in that case Haar. While the Church of Eva is the dominant religion of the game, the belief of the Dragon God as well as a few other local deities come up throughout the game as well but not too often. Also, fun fact this would be the first RPG to have it's entire plot revolve around a corrupt religion. Now while you could say "But FF6" I'd like to point out the fact that just because you fight a God doesn't necessarily mean you're fighting a religion.

Trust me, when you get Riki you will have the game ALMOST handed to you because...
Game play spoilers, HUH?!:
When you first get Riki his move pool is incredibly lackluster looking with his mix of physical and ether attacks. HOWEVER, as Riki continues to level up he learns more and more ether moves... which you will notice all are some form of debuff with some also doing damage. So does this mean Riki is just a debuff and attack mage? Not quite, you see later on Riki also learns a psychical move that does more damage and removes debuffs to enemies. On paper, that's a pretty bad move, right? WRONG. For EVERY debuff inflicted upon the enemy, that move becomes stronger. Sure, it removes them all after it lands, but the damage will be pretty ridiculous. Furthermore, bosses aren't immune to debuffs including the Final Boss.

I'm surprised you know about that one. Because so far I've played past that part... and honestly it's just that one scene and a little after it. Of course, I still need to finish the game so who knows? Also, I'm surprised you didn't point out the biggest spoiler in the game that the game just canNOT hide to save it's life.
Obvious huge spoiler:
Metal Face is Mumkahr and all the Faces are people who were killed/eaten/whatever by the Mechon. Like holy crap, the game could NOT hide that fact to save it's life. The moment Metal Face starts talking is when you can figure out who it is because while his voice has an effect added to it, his personality is still the same. Hell, he still fights with the same weapons he used to as a Homs and even has the same stance too!

I'm actually depressed you brought up Data Squad. I like to think nothing ever happened anime wise after Frontier. I actually hate Marcus' punching thing/schtick because it just goes against the franchise so hard I'm surprised that iteration wasn't some kind of parody.

All I can think of is it's some kind of fan service for the ladies, the male equivalent to the Cleavage Window trope. That's honestly my only answer.
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:02 am

Yeah, I kind of know about Riki (through Smash), and he seems awesome in kind of every way. He's definitely into my party once I get him...I just have to actually get him.

Is it? I haven't actually played it myself, one of my friends is and he's giving me a blow-by-blow of the dumbest cliche nonsense he finds, and we make fun of it.

Yeaaaaah, that one took me almost an embarrassingly long time to figure out. Granted, as soon as I caught the fact that it was indeed a possibility, I was like "Oh yeah, it's totally that guy whose name I don't remember, isn't it." Is it really supposed to be important, though? I mean, beyond being "Mechon with a face" his main thing seems to be that he's just a colossal butthole. Which, yeah, he's a Mechon, he gets off on murder, we kinda knew he's a colossal butthole.

To be fair, it's not like him punching them sends them reeling on a regular basis, it's just a thing he does, because he is ballsier than anyone else in the franchise. And I'm actually surprised you count Frontier, most series fans think that is the season that goes against everything the series is about. I'm personally just disappointed that it was Digimon and not its own thing, because that would have been awesome. And it wasn't supposed to be parody, it was supposed to be seinen instead of shonen. Which didn't really work...I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that Adventure and Tamers were the best though. And I have heard so many bad things about Fusion/Xros Wars that not only have I not watched it, I don't know if I even want to...

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Zeldaman2.0 on Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:19 am

This talk of religion has kinda re-sparked something I've wanted to do for a character for the longest time but really haven't had the opportunity to showcase. It's really loose but I wanted to have two same-gendered characters (to further establish the bond of brotherhood/sisterhood) and were similar but complementary foils to each other. One would start truly devout to their religion, and the other would take some of the more aggressive portions of the scripture too literally. These two would journey together in the name of their religion, but would each undergo a transformation in that faith. The first would begin to doubt the purity of themselves, who had in a way forced their religion and followings on others, as no one else could be pure outside their deity, and the other would likewise come to realize that extremism in any form is wrong and moderation should be applied.

I dunno. It's really loose for an idea.
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  NebulaGregarZX on Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:58 am

Hey, it sounds interesting to me. Tough, probably, but you could handle it.

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:26 am

Follow your dreams ZM, follow your dreams.

Riki is fantastic and he also has my favorite dialogue... then again, I naturally love the Nopon. I never thought I would love a race of perpetually happy and dumb small creatures like the Nopon, but I do. I love those little guys, they're the best part about the Xenoblade series.

I posted a hyperlink to the LP I was talking about, but the site doesn't show it too well so I thought I'd just mention that here. I should also actually note that if your friend is playing any sort of official version (whether it be SNES, GBA port, or VC version), then he (and you by proxy) are being let out of a few things. You may not know this, but the first two iterations of BoF did NOT get the best translations. The LP I linked has the player going through a fan made retranslation that fixes most of the issues.

You'll see why later on why that's an important detail. I won't explain any further. I have to say though, I'm glad he has such an entertaining personality. He's clearly the only guy having any fun in this story. Aside from Riki and whoever got stuck voicing "REYN TIME!"

I just cannot stand the fact that Marcus has punched a Meraman, you know a giant humanoid MADE OF FIRE, without being incinerated because in-universe lore Meramon's temperature is incredibly high as well as the fact that he also PUNCHED AND KILLED A MACHINEDRAMON! MACHINDRAMON! You know, the 20 ft tall dinosaur monstrosity made of parts of other Metal Digimon composed of the hardest metals of the Digital world and capable of just wasting cities on its own? That just goes against every last bit of logic the franchise goes by.

I can understand people not liking Frontier, because it was basically Digimon being a Magical Girl anime. I didn't mind it though. Honestly, compared to what came after it I consider it to be the last good and watchable series. Oh, and in case you wanted to look at that new series about the Adventure cast in their high schools days... don't bother. According to a friend of mine it is full of continuity errors and bad writing. The only good thing in it is Alphamon who I'm glad has not been ruined by being in such an awful show. Also, yeah, do not watch Xros Wars it is simply the worst. The only good moment that happens is when the heroes go attack this army of beast digimon and a beam attack is fired at the beast digimon... who do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as the beam goes by them and explodes seconds later.

Yeah, Adventure 01 and Tamers are champions forever. I don't see any new series ever being able to top them unless they decided to make an animated adaptation of that manga that had Taichi with a Veedramon and Super Mega Daemon. Now THAT would be a great anime to watch. You know, I have to say, I never thought I'd be discussing Digimon in a thread dedicated to SMT.
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:54 am

Ehhh, convection isn't often a thing in media...see also every anime or video game in which is featured a volcano. Standing even at its mouth should, by all rights, be incredibly hot in itself, and simply being near lava can often result in spontaneous combustion. So...heat in media is really never well-portrayed. Hell, even fire itself seems to sting more than burn.

...I seem to have forgotten anything involving Machinedramon. Of course, once you reach anything involving Banchou Leomon, it's hard to remember much else aside from Lalamon and her partner's general worthlessness. I might be staggering around using English names, seeing as I haven't actually watched anything to do with the dub barring Marcus saying "Got it memorized?"

Hey, come on, Frontier isn't sexualized like that...well, the guys aren't anyway. And I do love how the Beast evolution for Ranamon is...that other monstrosity. That was just kind of amusing to me. I also really liked the part where Takuya just gave up, it came off as very real to me.

Are you referring to Digimon Adventure Tri? I heard Brave Heart tri version. It kind of just sounds like generic J-pop. So ass.

See, from what I can tell, Digimon seems to suffer from Inverted Star Trek Disorder. Like how the Star Trek movies had good even numbers and bad odd numbers, Digimon is the reverse, at least from what I've heard.

Adventure was good, 02 is probably the worst thing I've seen in a long time...and I saw it what must be four years ago by now. Tamers was excellent of course, Frontier was good, but not well-received. Savers, as I said, had Banchou Leomon and Commander Satsuma, so as far as I'm concerned, pretty much all is forgiven. Like I said, I know little of Xros Wars other than they changed some designs and they suck now, but I've heard a lot of bad things, and I've heard that the second season is better.

Tri is...hm. Well, it's the seventh series, but the eighth season. It's also not actually out yet, since it starts with a movie trilogy, of which only the first has been released...last November. I'm not convinced of the quality of anything that's not at least a third of the way toward being done, unless it makes a really good or really stomach-turning first impression. And I kind of feel like I'll end up watching through it at some point anyway, just because I feel like after watching both Adventure and 02, I kind of feel obligated.

...yeah, that's kind of a weird feeling. I've heard some of the non-anime Digimon stuff is pretty good, but the only thing I've actually played for myself is Digimon World Dawn/Dusk and like...twenty minutes of Data Squad.

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:23 am

Well Adventure 1 (gee, shocker there) IIRC actually did show the effects of Meramon's heat as well as SkullMeramon's as well during his brief appearance in Japan. What I'm saying is, the older iterations of Digimon followed some degree of logic and realism... the new stuff is just getting more and more animu with each iteration.

I was just more of getting at the fact that Frontier revolved around the cast using their digivices (were they even called that? Can't rmember) as transformation trinkets and they had to rely on those to fight. Also yeah, that moment where Takuya gave up was really great and the following episode was really well done. The episode AFTER that one though, ehhhh best left unsaid. I really wish that Frontier didn't follow the typical trope of "The Hero and Lancer will be the only useful party members at the final fight" because Frontier had such potential when the Human and Beast Spirit fusions came about. But oh well, no sense in complaining about it now.

Yeah, Adventure Tri that's it. And why am I not surprised?

When it comes to movies for Digimon, all I can say is go watch Digimon X if you can. That movie is great at what it does and I wish it came out over here. As for others... Frontier had a movie/special that I think was pretty neat in concept, but the only thing I can remember about it is the twist regarding the villain. Tamers had two movies, but the one I saw was "Runaway Locomon" which is pretty subpar because of Riki getting a song sequence and the villain being super lame. That said, Locomon's only dialogue of "I wanna run" and "I wanna keep on running" plus hearing Steve Blum (Guilmon's English VA) saying "We're pretty" redeemed the movie for me... along with the sadly sparse appearance of Beelzemon.

Oh come on, 02 isn't that bad. It started off pretty good... and just kept going for so long it really ran out of steam. I mean come on, when you whip out Daemon (the third strongest in a group of seven of the most powerful beings in a universe) and just dismiss him away without a fight, you know you've screwed up. 02 would have been WAY better if Daemon was the final boss of it.

Are you serious Haar? You've only played Dawn/Dusk? Oh friend, I could tell you about some of the finest games you could play (as well as ones to avoid).
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:26 pm

Actually, pretty much none of the Digivices after Adventure were referred to as Digivices, presumably to keep a sort of differentiation. 02's were called D3s for example, and Tamers' were Arcs. In Frontier, they were D-Tectors. And yes, I did have to check.

Yeah, Frontier basically between Double and Hyper Spirit was kinda lame. And I liked the idea of Susanoomon, but it was kind of executed as a "you win" powerup. What I really like though, was that the Japanese name of Lucemon's second form was "Lucemon Falldown Mode." And because America hates portraying anything religious in any capacity, the dub called it "Chaos Mode." And it's not nearly as cool.

I actually watched all the Adventure, 02, and Tamers movies. It started out, honestly, as just me wanting to see what "Digimon The Movie" was like before it was spliced and messed up. And found that probably the least interesting one was Hurricane Touchdown, AKA part 3 of Digimon the Movie. Our War Game introduced Omnimon/Omegamon, though, so that gets points forever...even if it did go on to become Jogress/DNA Digivolving...which was extremly disappointing...

And yes, Beelzemon was pretty much the best character in Tamers, followed shortly by Guilmon. So no surprise there.

02 wasn't that bad for a while, I'll admit that. But then Jogress happened. There was so much they could have done with Jogress that they didn't. What happens when you Jogress with different partners? Or using Digimentals? Or with another Digimon that's already Jogressed? Nope, you get one partner. And the only one that went further was Paildramon. And he interrupted WarGreymon and Black WarGreymon's fight. I won't forgive that, because that was supposed to be awesome and took up about five minutes of the episode that should have been dedicated to it and was NAMED FOR IT. And the fact that they abandoned Digimentals as soon as Jogress became a thing, and that we saw Ultimate/Perfect Level exactly once with Magna/HolyAngemon was also dumb. As was the whole reason that Jogress existed. You mean to tell me that Gennai, of all people, thought that fusing two Adult/Champion-levels into something with the power of one Ultimate/Perfect level would be a better idea than just having both the Adult/Champions become two Ultimate/Perfect levels? Bullshit! We saw just how bullshit that is when Magna/HolyAngemon showed up! And Gennai, who taught the group how to use Ultimate/Perfect level in the first place, thought that was a good idea?! And of course the whole twist of MaloMyotismon/BelialVamdemon was utterly stupid. Also, Daemon in himself, just because he was built up, then never fought, claimed he'd come back, and never did. Also, Ken's questioning of Arachnemon (And fuck the name Arukenimon by the way) of why she chose him got really stale, really fast. It was nearly word-for-word the same every time! And what the hell was Grayscale Beach? Another thing that was never explained, that's what. And of course, the only characters I can say I actively liked were TK/Takeru, Patamon semi by extension, Veemon, and Wormmon. Everyone else gave me no reason to care. I liked exactly one human character in the entire show. Obviously not counting the old Digidestined, since they were really more of a cameo. And did I mention that the old Digidestined having to give up their powers so that Imperialdramon could de-petrify was stupid? Do it yourselves, you are more capable and more experienced!

As a final note, I don't like Daisuke/Davis or Ken. Seeing as they're the main two of this series, that kind of killed it for me. Their Digimon were cool, for sure, but they were both annoying.

Yeah, I know I they're...what, like the fifth games in the Digimon World series? Sixth? More? And I know that the series started off on PS1. Honestly, if I'd seen some of the earlier ones in a game store, I'd have picked them up for sure, but with my backlog perpetually filling at the same rate it deteriorates, I'm not entirely willing to go on Amazon or anything for them. I'm also aware that Ryo in Tamers (The coolest minor character in the series) is from some of the EU content as well, I think it had something to do with Milleniummon? Either way, I'm pretty sure he's not from the Tamers universe.

Fire away, I'm always game for recommendations.

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:56 pm

Oh yeah, that's right. I totally forgot about that.

The thing I like about Lucemon the most in the dub was that his one attack, the one that wasn't Paradise Lost Punch (also, that's a fantastic name I have to note) had all of its religious symbols replaced with X's, Squares, Circles, and Triangles (or maybe it was just three of those, its been a while). I loved that because number one, apparently Dub!Lucemon is a Sony fan which amuses me to no end. Secondly, it just seemed more... otherworldly and digital seemingly more fitting for the series than anything else.

Our War Game is probably the best Digimon movie to be dubbed. I really wish Runaway Locomon was longer because that would made it not as bad as it was... at least, I'm going to think that.

Yeah... 02 really needed better writing to explain what was going on half the time/why things happened as they did later on in it. In retrospect, it's absolutely stunning to me that only one member of the new cast actually got any character development or focus for that matter, why yes I AM talking about Ken how did you know? Now, I might be wrong on that, but I for the life of me cannot remember any sort of actual development any of the other new cast had. The only good thing about MaloMyotismon was that I got to hear Richard Epcar some more (love that guy) and honestly... I think MaloMyotismon himself was a pretty cool Mega level mon... though I do wish he was saved for a different show and that Daemon or Hell even Oikawa would have had the main villain role. Also, Ken and Wormmon were my favorites in the 02 cast, I thought that would be fair to note as well.

Ryo was actually form a Wonderswan game believe it or not and Milleniummon was the main antagonist for that game. I can't remember the specifies, but the Adventure 01 cast got abducted (somehow) and they called out to Ryo to help them... by basically having him and a young Ken go through a bunch of missions to stealth train them to fight off Milleniummon and save them. Yes, that happened. I think Ryo got really paranoid/felt used from that and just kind of wound up wandering the digital multi-verse afterwards? I need to go track that plot synposis down, but it is somehow canon as you can see Milleniummon's body for a brief second in some of Ken's flasshbacks when he gets hit with the dark spores... You know, I'm just going to stop there before I try to connect those dots.

The Ps1 Digimon World games are really good... except for the third one which I could go into detail about how bad it is. The second one can be a little grind crazy, but once you figure things out and get a grasp on how it works you can avoid excess grinding. I could also go into detail about that but I won't at the moment. Now, I'd say something about the DS games, but I don't need to anymore since this game is coming out and is basically those games except better in every way: https://youtu.be/iJZx96i1dNw

And in SMT related news this video happened: https://youtu.be/_C7gVwbmUa4

Got to say, good to see that Atlus has a sense of humor... I think?
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:43 am

Eh, Ken...I didn't like Ken that much, really. I'll acknowledge that he's the only new character to develop properly, for sure, but...well, it only took him having the same conversation, nearly word-for-word, about...was it four or five times? It felt like at least that many. "Why me?" "Because you were there." "That's it?" "Yep." "It could have been anyone else?" "Uh-huh." End scene. I did like Wormmon, though, I'll admit. And I didn't take issue with MaloMyotismon himself, just...the circumstances surrounding his appearance. "Oh by the way I'm secretly the orchestrator of everything evil in this world time to eat the old villains OH DEAR MERCY THE POWER OF LOVE IT BURNS I'M DYING!" It's...abundantly clear that the writers just decided it'd be cool to bring him back and shoved him in without thinking of how to make it work. Much like most of the season.

Oh, cool, I'll probably check them out once I get some more money...and complete some more games I already have. Uncharted 2, Bayonetta 1 and 2, Tales of Symphonia 2, Vesperia, Xillia 1&2, and by then Fire Emblem Fates will be out for sure, plus Okami, Soul Nomad and the World Eaters, Nocturne, SMTIV...I actually think that's most of them, but they're all RPGs except the first three, so...yeah, like 60-ish hours each.

What, you didn't get that Atlus has a sense of humor when you saw P4DaN trailers? They gave Teddie an Igor outfit. And there is DLC for Power Ranger masks. And it's free, so you have no reason not to get it. I would like to note how hilarious some of these things are...like the final song, as danced to by a team of seven Power Rangers and their tagalong pop idol in her pajamas.

And...since I can't understand Japanese, I'm assuming the joke is that the scene is just the one dude casting Recarm/Samarecarm over and over again? Granted, I do like the idea of "Oh, the big scary robot man? He's our squishy healer."

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:18 pm

That's fair, I can relate honestly because I feel the same way about Johnny Joestar from Steel Ball Run. If you've read all of Part 7, you probably might know why I say this. Great character, ruined by really bad/dumb moments. I really feel like somebody should just go ahead and try to give 02 a rewrite. And I don't mean in several areas, I mean ALL of it. Like yeah, the first part focusing on the Emperor wouldn't need much, but almost everything afterwards needs either polish or more work on it.

You've got some fine choices there, though a part of me wants to say you're better off not playing ToS2 because the fact that the ToS1 cast get treated as guest party members who come and go throughout the game. That, and the two main characters have possibly the dumbest relationship I've ever read about. But if you don't mind those things, go ahead and go for it.

I watched none of those videos because I think that's one of the dumbest things they could have ever done with Persona. Especially for the fact that it's CANON. You know what I liked? Persona 4 Arena Ultimax (or as it should have been called "The Ultra Suplex Hold"). You know what was great about that game? It gave the cast really good epilogues and brought the Persona 3/4 chapter to a nice close. I mean yeah, there were some loss ends (Sho's fate most notably and Elizabeth's involvement) but honestly not too bad. Not as bad as some other works of fiction.
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:52 pm

Do you really? I liked Johnny. I mean...I wasn't really sure how I was supposed to feel about him, but I definitely did like him. Gyro too, for that matter. The only thing I can really think of that I didn't like was in Part 8, where his being written out of the story was basically "and then he married a Japanese lady, moved to Japan, and died." I'm also not sure how to feel about his involvement with the Golden Rectangle--his "closure" in SBR, that is. I feel like it would have been better for him not to have that, but his scene with Valentine was still great regardless, or at least I thought so.

Oh, trust me, I know about ToS2. I made it probably halfway through the Wii version before getting Abyss, which is better in every conceivable manner. But honestly, I didn't much like the ToS1 cast, barring Sheena, Zelos, and Kratos, the latter not appearing at all to my understanding. Lloyd bugged me with all his "there must be a way" nonsense (it is IMPOSSIBLE to appease everyone, as the Vanguard proves in ToS2), Colette...just the tripping bull, all the time. It was like the writers stuck themselves in a corner and just said, "Oh...well then Colette trips over nothing and that fixes things." Genis and Raine were both annoying for various reasons, and Presea and Regal...I didn't have much issue with them, but they were barely even there.

Point being, I know about it, but I started it, so now I plan on finishing it, because I can still enjoy the battle system (Free Run, I missed you...)

I was actually planning on finishing a run of FES before doing the P3 side of Ultimax, but I can agree it's a good game for sure. And had you seen the trailers, you'd have seen the character designs, which are...brilliant, in that they revel in their own silliness. Especially Elvis-Teddie. And for a rhythm game, the story is surprisingly decent. I mean, not nearly on par with Persona in general, but way more than you'd expect for a rhythm game. Plus, the songs they chose to include are mostly pretty good (though the remix of Now I Know isn't nearly as emotional) and fitting. It is, altogether, a solid game, so while I'm sure a lot of people would have preferred a soundtrack, I still find myself picking it up for the random shenanigans I can accomplish through the costumes in the game. What's that? Pink Power Ranger Tanaka? Please and thank you. I'll also say it is the only game I have a Platinum Trophy for, though admittedly it's probably the easiest game to do that on that I own.

...alsoit'sUltimaxUltraSuplexHold...

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:43 pm

I wanted to like Johnny, I'm not going to lie. I think he's one of the best written JoJo's in the series and he has all these great moments where you can legitimately cheer him on as he succeeds. But...

Part 7 Spoilers WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY'd the manga!:
So, remember that fight against Axl RO where at one point everyone is creaming their jeans about how edgy and hardcore Johnny was? Yeah, that ruined him for me. No joke. I thought there was some kind of mistake because I swear this was something that belonged in Narudo (obvious misspelling because I'm a jerk) instead of JJBA. It was so incredibly jarring, nothing like that has ever happened in the series before and I'm glad it hasn't happened again (to my knowledge). It's just... so out of place and the Dark Will is easily the dumbest thing Araki ever imagined for anything in JJBA. It also highlights why I think Part 7 is one of the less well written entries into the series and I'd be more than happy to explain that if requested. Also, the revelation that Johnny was new universe Johnathan didn't sit well with me either. I wanted to like Johnny as who he was supposed to be in my mind, the new JoJo of the new universe. Not a rebooted version of the perfectly fine Gentleman Supreme who he shares almost nothing in common with. He's basically to Johnathan what DmC!Donte is to DMC!Dante... actually, that's really mean to Johnny. He has much better writing for him and is easily more likable than that thing.

Yeah, Kratos does NOT appear at all in ToS2 (it makes sense narrative wise, but that's still terrible), but they still got Cam Clarke to come back and read his lines as the narrator... for what that's worth. Honestly, I've seen worse protagonists than Lloyd, so he didn't bother me too much. Colette however is a pretty bad heroine, really wish that role went to Sheena instead. I thought Raine was great and that Genis was average, not bad but not good either. Presea, due to her anime archetype, kind of gets forgotten a lot. However, I must say, Regal is awesome.

Well, good luck on finishing it. Godspeed Haar.

Well that's the other about that game. I don't enjoy Rhythm games. At all. I also don't understand them much in the way I don't understand most sports video games. I guess I can't see pass my logic of "You don't need a video game to dance/play football, you can do that on your own." Which I would say is both a bad, but also good thing.
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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:29 pm

Yeaaaaah, honestly I don't remember that well at all...if there's one glaring problem I have with Jojo, it's that the villains are all just one-shot. They get their five to ten chapters and then they're gone forever. Is that the part where you hear Johnny's backstory and find out he was an asshole?

Oh, there are worse than Lloyd, no argument there, he just bugs me on a personal level--I don't like the way he talks and acts, like there's always a perfect solution to every problem. And what makes it worse is that as far as ToS goes, he's right. That's just...ugh. And as far as Raine went, it was more a case of "we don't really have a reason to put her in this scene, so let's just have her go ruin-crazy again." It felt like her only character trait. I know she had more, but I can't remember them, at all, and I only beat the game like a week ago. Genis it was more a case of saying stupid stuff in serious situations (Desian ranches in particular.)

Ah, see, that's a case of personal taste. I can agree on sports games, but rhythm games...ehhh, it's a viewpoint that I don't agree with, I'll just leave it there.

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Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:48 pm

You probably don't remember it at all because of just how dumb that fight was. Can't say I remember the specifics, aside from Hot Pants and Gyro being there and unable to help Johnny because Civil War got them. That's honestly how it goes for Monster/Villain of the Week based series. Though, I think that's the strong suit of JoJo. The villains and their abilities often prove to be more memorable than they would have been in any other series and no two villains have been completely alike... well, mostly anyway.

You know, on paper I would hate Lloyd as a character because of my own jaded pessimism and all that but honestly it just didn't bug me or anything. No idea why, but eh I guess it doesn't matter. Honestly, Raine was just basically there to give exposition to Lloyd/the party as well as be something of the Team Mom. Genis though, Genis has little to nothing going for him.
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