ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:01 pm

I get this feeling like Ronaldo's not a bad guy, but it's just that the game keeps pushing him down my throat, like "Hey! Something's up with JP's! Do you get it yet?! Let's have Ronaldo explain it some more! Hey, maybe you shouldn't trust JP's!" It's really annoying.

_________________
I have kidnapped your sanity. You may have it back when I leave.
avatar
Haar_Dragon
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris

Posts : 12822
Points : 15588
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Somewhere...I think I'm lost.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  NebulaGregarZX on Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:51 am

I'm looking forward to that rant.

But yeah, what I have against Ronaldo is mostly relative stuff. Maybe in a different story, he'd be a better rep, but in this case, his opponent is the one getting stuff done and saving the world, he can potentially kill one of my favorite characters, and like Haar said, he shoves the same thing down your throat - which honestly, tends to get me thinking the opposite way: they're so blatant about this, it must be an attempt to deceive me somehow - so maybe if his counterpart weren't Yamato Hotsuin, he'd have a case. And why is it that you shouldn't trust JPs again? Isn't it just that they do stuff like killing off people who investigate them too deeply, and they're hiding something?

On the subject of him shoving the "JPs is suspicious" angle down your throat, well... just how much do you have to listen to Yamato talk about how he thinks the world should be? Maybe they were trying to give both reps equal time sharing their viewpoint, but didn't exactly think Ronaldo's point through very well, and failed to give him enough to work with, instead spending time building the subplot of his investigation. Maybe if they showed more of him defending people and working hard to distribute rations and the like, instead of focusing on his opposition to JPs, he'd be a better rep.

I don't like saying this, because it feels kinda dickish, but I already figured there had to be worse than Ronaldo. As much crap as we give him, he's not the worst I can imagine, and the way you're hyping it up, I've got some high expectations for how bad these other Law representatives must be.

_________________
Gstol, what the hell is your signature supposed to mean!?
TITAL Characters: Aleri, Rexial, Kiel, Sukiru, Aleri@Future(Aleri's ghost from the future) Leon(FFII, not KH), Seta Souji(P4 Protagonist), LaKuRo.
Org.XIV Characters: Aleri, Rexial, Xeromus, Adachi, Uchikina, Vita.
Planned Characters for DB Story: Redemi, Nobis, Matsuda.
To Be Introduced: Stice, Some jackass ghost, Rekoka, Raidou. Also some villains.

"Go forth, and set the world on fire!"
avatar
NebulaGregarZX
Aleri, the Vindex de Crepusculum
Aleri, the Vindex de Crepusculum

Posts : 6534
Points : 9221
Join date : 2010-11-01
Age : 21
Location : Castle Asylum

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:05 pm

Oh, yes, I always love a good rant.

I'm really not sure he'd be much better in any other story, but from what I can tell, he seems decent enough as a human being. That is to say, if he weren't in an SMT game, I might not have any issue with him at all. What bothers me with the whole shove-down-throat thing is that, rather than make me think the opposite, it just makes me not care. I just think, "Oh great, Ronaldo ranting about how Yamato is evil again. Game, can I please hear something you haven't told me in the last twenty minutes?" As for why not to trust JP's, Ronaldo's grudge was that they killed his mentor (Yamato is very open about this when you ask him), and I think the reason you shouldn't trust them is just because they're overall very secretive. That said, it's still a terrible idea to take their supplies, given that they are far more capable than civilians (being an organization trained to handle the supernatural and all). And at the end of the day, Yamato is right in sort of a cold way--in times of crisis, it's a better idea to give your supplies to the people who are capable, even if it does mean letting innocent civilians die. To paraphrase the man himself, giving to the weak means weakening the strong, and eventually you'll be left with nothing but weak people.

As for your later question, you hear absolutely nothing of Yamato's world-view until Day 6, when he establishes that he wants a meritocracy where the entire world runs on a skill-based system. I feel the need to draw attention to the fact that he never defines "skill," but I'll leave it at that for now. Before then, all the conversations where he describes people as "useless" or some synonym thereof are optional, to the best of my knowledge, where Ronaldo's...aren't, which is where my issue with Ronaldo stems from. It seems like their vision for Ronaldo's viewpoint was just that Yamato's is evil. While completely ignoring the fact that while it might not be the most morally sound thing in the world, it's still smarter than stealing food from capable people to give it to weak civilians. And technically there is a scene where Joe is taking medicine from Ronaldo to give to his sick girlfriend. It's not like I don't believe that Ronaldo is trying to distribute goods, it's just...is there ever a reason given why the government can't get emergency rations into the area? In DeSu 1, it's shown that they do, but they don't give enough because SMT. In this game, I think Dubhe shoots down a helicopter or something like that, but there's no reason given after you've beaten it or any other Septentriones why you aren't getting supplies.

I'm not saying there can't be anyone worse than Ronaldo, but I really dislike the way he's presented, and I found that his backstory made his investigation into JP's sound entirely like personal vendetta rather than an actual sense of justice. Not that I didn't believe he has one, but the "These guys are shady assholes who killed my mentor" angle was came across to me as more accurate.

_________________
I have kidnapped your sanity. You may have it back when I leave.
avatar
Haar_Dragon
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris

Posts : 12822
Points : 15588
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Somewhere...I think I'm lost.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:36 pm

So, how about those Law Representatives? If you thought the Law faction was questionable with its view towards how the world should be run, wait until you get a load of the people who represent it. Of course, not all of them are bad. In fact, we’re going to look at the perhaps the best ones in the entire franchise first. Keep in mind, my memory isn’t the best so a couple things might be wrong, I’m only human after all.

First off is Amane Kuzuryu of Devil Survivor 1, the Maiden of the Shomonkai who has had probably the WORST life of anyone in the game (aside from a certain Chaos Rep). Being born to a passionate religious man and, assumedly from what the game hints, a woman who died giving birth to her, Amane’s father went on to curse God for this tragedy and dedicated himself to the Raging God Belberith. Furthermore, Amane’s father in his service to Belberith would allow one of Belbeirth’s servants, a flower Eldritch being known as Jezebel, to inhabit Amane’s body since she was an infant and planned on using her as the Maiden for his cult dedicated to Belberith. And apparently the fact that Jezebel will eventually devour Amane’s soul and takeover her body didn’t bother her father at all in the slightest. In addition to this, her father is effectively the entire reason she is an emotionless girl throughout the entirety of the game. And then to top it all off, Amane is eventually possessed by the angel Remiel some time prior/after an event that happened six months before the start of the game.

So what does Amane desire to achieve through talking and conversing with the Main Character/Abel (granted Remiel does half of the talking)? Humanity’s survival. That’s right, Amane and, beyond surprising given how the other angels act, Remiel desire to save mankind from YHVH’s trial by trying to convince MC/Abel to become the Messiah via becoming the King of Bel and siding with the Law faction. Is this a set-up though, an elaborate plan to give the Law Faction an answer to the Demi-Fiend and perhaps obtain an advantage over the legions of Chaos? Nope, it’s all legitimate and actually happens. At the end of the game, MC/Abel is tasked to go on journey by YHVH to go PUNCH OUT EVERY LAST OTHER DEITY so YHVH can watch over mankind without any possible interference, and so it happens. Amane however, continues to wait for the MC/Abel to finish his duty so she may be with him while the world goes back to the normal and the events of the lockdown are shortly forgotten.

Never once does Amane think of trying to obtain a level of power from her siding with the forces of Law for all she desires is to save Mankind and ensure their prosperity. She never takes credit for MC/Abel’s accomplishments and she’ll even join you in other routes if you seek a different way of overcoming the Lockdown (except she won’t join the Naoya/Kaido route for obvious reasons). I also have to give Remiel some more mention due to how incredibly nice he is towards humanity and how he apparently got YHVH to agree to whole “Hey, let’s just watch over mankind” idea (YHVH was perhaps at his nicest in this game, though being killed about four or so times might have something to do with that). As I also mentioned before, the other angels in the series are a bunch of Smug Super racists (well okay, aside from Gabriel) who just look down upon humanity. Really, Amane and Remiel are the best thing to happen to the Law forces in a LONG time.

I can’t say too much about Zayin from SMT II as I haven’t played the game or read the LP of it. I just know some basic stuff about him and I won’t go into detail with it because of that. All I can really say about him is that Zayin does what he does because he feels its right, yet on his own intuition he rebels against the people above him viewing them as evil and in a desperate need of his own personal judgment. However, this winds up being his own downfall and he knows it, yet he still does it anyway knowing it’s for the best of the world.

I can say a little more about Jonathan though from SMT IV, as I’ve played enough of it, yet not all of it. It’s really nice to see a guy from the upper class of a caste system being a really nice guy to everyone he comes across, yet not being a doormat and also keeping his head when enraged. Despite the differences he has with Walter the two remain on good terms with each other until the moment the game’s alignment lock comes into effect and after that, I’m not sure. A friend of mine told me things get worse for Jonathan, but I guess I’ll see what happens whenever I get around to doing that Law playthrough.

Now it’s time to cover the people who are absolutely TERRIBLE in what they try to preach/represent. Of course, I should make one note here first. We’ve already talked about Ronaldo the Hypocrite and established why he is a terrible person. However and believe it or not, Ronaldo has ONE thing above these people… he actually helps people. So you all know you’re in for a REAL treat with that knowledge, don’t you?

First off is Hikawa from Nocturne. I should note that Noctune is a bit weird when it comes to alignments and I’ll go in-depth with that later, but Hikawa’s goal of a “World of Silence” has quite a lot of parallels to what the Law forces want some of the time. So Hikawa is essentially the entire reason Nocturne even happens and he spends the whole game basically being an SMT James Bond villain (at least I think so from the tacky suit he wears). However, Hikawa only winds up giving himself more trouble than he desires by being directly responsible for the Yosuga/Chaos faction to arise in the world after doing such a horrible job of killing the Mantra off, who were basically the Chaos faction with a dumb, yet cool looking leader. In addition to that, he proceeds to sacrifice a character that some players may like and wind up getting them to want him dead.

For being a complete and utter nihilist, Hikawa is pretty dedicated to his passion for creating his “World of Silence.” In fact, you could say it’s pretty contradictory for him to seek such a goal like that. So chances are Hikawa wouldn’t fare well in the world he seeks to create anyway. To back this up, his dying words after you fight him seem to show some fear of the silence he so desired this entire time setting upon him as his life ceases to be. Really, what a complete and utter loser this guy winds up to be, but I suppose that Hikawa might just be Atlus taking a stab at the portrayal of Nihilists in fiction.

And after Hikawa we have Zelenin from Strange Journey (not the only problem that game had, believe you me). So in SJ the MC is part of an elite task force of people gathered from around the globe to fight against a bizarre phenomenon known as the Schwarzwelt that appeared in Antarctica a couple weeks ago in-game and has consumed half of the continent. The MC and his fellow crewmen must journey into the Schwarzwelt in order to stop it and save the Earth, but the entry is a bit rough and the four ships for the crews are all separated. And that’s how it goes from there on out. Zelenin joins the Red Sprite (the MC’s crew) in Sector Bootes/the second sector after the MC breaks himself and her out of a castle owned by a crazy Mad Scientist demon named Mitra. Not the first Law Rep to get broken out of a jail cell with the main character interestingly enough.

Zelenin, after getting rescued insists on joining the Red Sprite’s Strike Team… except due to her hatred of demons because of Mitra, she refuses to use the Demon Summoning Program like everyone else does. The only way she gets by is by receiving help from an angel named Mastema who shows up from time to time to also offer the MC solutions to his dilemmas. After getting smack talked by Asura and witnessing humans doing what Mitra did to demons except WAY WORSE than what he did, Zelenin has lost her faith in humanity, yet still tries to carry on working for the Strike Team (she actually got a Power from Mastema, but that totally got wrecked a dungeon after she got it). And then after a faithful meeting with Mastema again, Zelenin takes his offer to be converted into an angel... who can sing to ERASE YOUR SOUL.

And no, that’s not a joke. It actually happens. Zelenin sings and proceeds to erase the souls of the previously mentioned evil humans making them living husks of men who just babble about how peaceful they feel. And not only does the Chaos Rep call her out on how screwed up that is, but several members of the Red Sprite are also disturbed by it (though some of them don’t). Zelenin shortly leaves, feeling her duty as an angel is not to be with the team anymore but rather serve the forces of Law and take over the Schwarzwelt so they can create a “World of Silence” using her songs. And you can probably guess how it goes from here.

So to reiterate, Zelenin spends most of the game being practically useless, gains power from an obviously shady angel to help the crew once and then leaves because apparently she’s not aware of how brutish humanity’s history has been. For someone who is supposed to be this brilliant scientist she sure hasn’t realized HOW we have all the knowledge we do in regards to Biology and Psychology. And you know what makes this even better? Zelenin never once realizes she’s a tool for Mastema to use, never once does that thought come to her mind while EVERYONE ELSE can clearly see it. Really, Zelenin is awful in almost every possible way.

But for as bad Zelenin is… she is NOT as bad as Law Hero, or as I like to call him Mike Dawson, from SMT1. While he is an actual party member and can be REALLY useful for the time he’s with the MC, I’m not really going to count that because this is all about story here (besides Amane would still be the best anyway). So, MC meets Dawson in a dream he has about the other important characters in the game but would actually meet him in prison after being locked there for looking for the Heroine. On a weird coincidence, Dawson’s girlfriend has the same name as the Heroine and he was thrown in prison for trying to save her. So MC and Dawson manage to bust out and afterwards meet up with Chaos Hero and they all decide to head back to MC’s place because he’s been gone for some time now.

So they go back to MC's house and find out his mother's been eaten alive by a demon who took her form to try and eat and kill them. And so they kill the demon, and afterwards the first and actual words spoken by Dawson are "Oh Kazuya... I'm sorry for your loss." And just those words, he does or says nothing else. Chaos Hero proceeds to chew him out over this and tells MC if he needs space he'll get it. After this, the trio go about their quest to save the Heroine, one thing leads to another, and trio wind up falling into Limbo after Thor’s Hammer descends upon Japan, and by Thor’s Hammer I mean a cluster of ICBMs.

They manage to get out of Limbo after passing a trial and wind up in Japan 30 years later after the Nuclear Holocaust happened and try to make their way through the ruins of civilization while dealing with demons. At one point, Dawson and the MC manage to find Dawson’s girlfriend… except she’s now effectively a zombie due to two demons making her and an entire town into playmates for a girl named Alice. Long story short, Dawson gives up his life to save MC from one of the demons so he can stop them, Alice, and save the town. However, Dawson is later revived by YHVH and says he is the Messiah and asks the MC to go take care of Echidna for him as she’s a threat to the forces of Law. Notably, this is the final time Dawson acts like his usual self before his personality shifts to “WORSHIP ME OR DIE!” No really, that happens.

So at that point, you either side with him or go against him really… right after YHVH decides to flood Tokyo and murder almost everyone for no apparent reason than to give the Messians the upper hand in the upcoming fight at the Grand Cathedral. Also, little note here, YHVH is responsible for the Nuclear Holocaust that happened 30 years ago in the game. So what happens to Mike Dawson if you decide to fight with him in the Law Route? Chaos Hero, now a half demon ninja dude, just up and shanks him while he laments how even with power YHVH gave him and the fact he was told he was the Messiah he’s still dying after almost no fight happened. The MC then goes and murders Chaos Hero, who instead of cursing him, proceeds to give him the following final words. These are his final words in the Neutral Route as well when you fight him.

"...So, my end comes as well... In the end, I couldn't beat you, MC. You always were a step ahead of me. And I thought that I had finally gotten power that surpassed God's too ...Was this all... just a dream...? A nightmare...? No... It was a good dream... Goodbye, MC..." – Chaos Hero

So, a little note here since I brought up Chaos Hero. I bet some of you think that Dawson actually kills him in the Chaos Route, right? Wrong, Chaos Hero dies by trying to use the Devil Ring to gain "more power than YHVH" and to prove himself and it all it does is just obliterate him because he didn't know what he was doing. And then Dawson shows up and brags about how Chaos Hero died because he was a heretic. And then immediately after that Kazuya kills Mike Dawson. And that’s that.

So when you fight Mike Dawson and beat him in the Chaos and Neutral Routes, what does he do? He spends his last minutes of life lamenting how he lost despite having been revived and granted power from YHVH. And to add to this he realizes he wasn't the real Messiah after all and just a pawn for YHVH to use. And the kicker of this whole thing being that he was told he was the Messiah and he decided to believe in his own hype and brag about it. A fitting end for such a loser if you ask me.

And so there you have it, a crash course on the Law Reps as I have encountered them. Now keep in mind, there ARE Law, Chaos, and Neutral endings in the Raidou games, but they honestly don’t affect the plot too much in those games so thus they don’t matter. Furthermore, the Devil Summoner games lack the routes and reps focusing on telling a story much like Digital Devil Saga. And as we all know, the Persona games lack any form of alignment and reps.
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Zeldaman2.0 on Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:28 am

"And as we all know, the Persona games lack..."
OBJECTION!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i23GfxOlQVQ

I know little about Persona 1 and 2 but I can safely say that while there isn't a "true" Law and Chaos route in 3 and 4 there DOES exist a kind of parallel in those games. Let's examine both cases, shall we?

In 3, you're presented with a new friend, Ryoji, in December who grows close to the party and eventually reveals that he used to be Pharos who resided within the MC and was the harbinger and the bringer of death to all of humanity. Without quite as much buildup as other SMT games, he presents the MC with a choice to make: to let humanity live in ignorance and accept its fate or alternatively to fight against the natural order.

With this laid out, we do have our representatives of what I will be calling "Ignorance" and "Truth" in these two games, Ignorance being more Law-aligned and "Truth" being more Chaos-aligned. The representatives of "Ignorance" are Strega and their cult of followers who beg for Nyx and the world's ending, to die finally and be wiped out along with everyone else. Opposing them, of course, would be challenging Nyx herself and fighting against fate. If you choose to side with Ignorance reps, you give up and lose your memories of what has happened the last few months, disregarding it all and choosing to live out your final days in bliss(?).

Fighting against that lets you seek a deeper truth and against Strega one last time. You challenge Tartarus and the fate that has been set out for you and with the power of answers gained from many other walks of life you face off against a primordial angel of death with the fucking sickest boss music ever going on in the background. Strega, in a common theme associated with them, accepts their fate as you defeat them and Nyx, and die once you complete your mission.

In Persona 4, the representatives of Truth and Ignorance are a little more clear, but in a manner that seems a bit backwards. Truth is, in actuality, Adachi, and Ignorance is Taro Namatame. Taro never once questions a single thing he does: on a whim he notices the TV disturbances and proceeds to contact the police station about it, where Adachi tricks him into kidnapping others and shoving them into TVs for their own "Safety". Then he keeps doing this until he has to capture a small girl and then get his shit wrecked for it. Only when he gets hospitalized does he start to even think about what he's done, and even then he doesn't take into account the severity of what he's done to these poor people.

And then we have Adachi, who not only is the requirement for the Normal ending in a way, but is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HELPING YOU GET THE TRUE ENDING OH WHAT'S THAT ADACHI'S KIND OF A GOOD GUY WELL THAT'S BECAUSE HE'S KIND OF FUCKING AWESOME LIKE THAT. FUCK.

Okay, calmed down a bit. So Adachi, while being responsible for literally everything in the game, also has the decency to keep up on everything and uses the farce of being a shitty helper cop to Dojima to get around however he needs to and does whatever the fuck he pleases so long as he doesn't get caught. And when he does get caught in the TV world he comes clean about everything and states truths about the world: life's genuinely not fair and can be demoralizing pretty frequently. Sometimes the only way to get ahead is to not play by the rules and be blessed with talent or stop trying.

After that he says, contrary to what has been set as the precedent in SEES' case is that he commits to the way of the world and accepts his fate as it stands. Then, from in jail he sends a letter leaving the last clue to the ultimate truth: not everything was actually his doing, and lets Yu find his own truth while fighting against Izanami. Then later in Ultimax he fights against the natural order in favor of the truth and assisting Yu's crew yet again and becomes a huge badass yet again while doing so.

ADACHI MOTHERFUCKERS DO YOU UNDERSTAND YET.

...because I no longer have photoshop and probably couldn't Good Guy Greg Adachi, have this instead.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xvdIzsi0PqA/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAFs/iOjOAebz434/photo.jpg
avatar
Zeldaman2.0
Beta
Beta

Posts : 2139
Points : 4062
Join date : 2012-06-05
Age : 22
Location : The sea of the Soul

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:14 pm

Well I have to say, you make a fine case ZM. However, you’ve overlooked a very important fact in regards to Law and Chaos.

If we take your point at face value, then I would say the Personas 3 and 4 completely and entirely miss the entire point of having Law and Chaos in them. As you’ve said, Law is Ignorance and Chaos is Truth, just at face value from knowing ANYTHING about the plot of both games immediately puts Chaos into a biased favor in terms of game play AND story. For the protagonists are all about pursuing the Truth in both games and by doing so give no representation to Ignorance at all. Secondly, the endings of Ignorance don’t give you any boss to fight or conclusion to reach and they are ALL Bad Endings. This isn’t even a matter of opinion, they are both terrible as they involve the world ending.

Now if ANYONE doesn’t agree with that, please stop what you’re doing and get some help right away. You shouldn’t like the idea of the world ending, it’s bad mmkay. And while the Law endings are usually horrific in nature when you think about them, they aren’t as bad as that. Free Will is lost, but ultimate security and protection are given to those who accept and have allied with the forces of Law. That’s bad, from some perspectives, but it’s not as bad as all life ending on the planet. And this is REALLY where P3/4 miss the point.

Law and Chaos are being taken to their logical extremes and should thus be viewed as bad in the eyes of a normal person. Its just that when and only when given those two options Chaos is usually the one people pick instead of Law. For Neutral is without a doubt the best route in regards to outcome (usually). I mean really, do I have to explain why Neutral is good? I’m sure I don’t have to so I’ll just leave it at that.
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:40 pm

I would disagree. Having had...somewhat limited involvement with SMT, I might be out of line saying this, but the Law endings seem to be pretty unequivocally bad. I would even argue that living without free will is as bad as being eradicated. If we look at P3, we see that Ignorance results in everyone dying, while Truth results in being entrusted with the lives of everyone, which will end only if you fail.

Now, compare and contrast, say, Devil Survivor. The Law ending, without the 8th Day, is essentially "And then humanity was enslaved by God and his emissary." Meanwhile, the Chaos ending, again without the 8th Day, adds up to "And then the fate of mankind was determined by the new King of Bel...who had just saved mankind." There's a line about living in fear of what happens next, but then again, if someone defeated a large number of well-known deities, I'd be pretty terrified too, especially if I lived in or near Tokyo.

And then there's Devil Survivor 2, which does try to get across that neither extreme is the "right" way, but when it comes down to it, Yamato's meritocracy is, on the whole, a better idea for a society than Ronaldo's egalitarianism. To paraphrase Yamato himself, if you waste your supplies on the useless people, then you lose not only supplies, but people who are actually useful. Not to mention the fact that egalitarianism provides no motive for the individual to work hard; they still reap the same benefits as the rest of the collective, regardless of how much work they put in. That said, I'm on the seventh day of my first run and I chose the Nihilist route, but all the same, it all seemed to stack up with Chaos being the so-called "lesser of two evils" to me.

Basically in short terms...Law always seems to me to be the shit end of the stick, where Chaos, while never unequivocally good, was certainly a more hopeful future. Certainly Persona doesn't handle that in quite as good a manner as the others, but then again, the only real difference is that the game isn't trying to sell you on the Ignorance reps like SMT does with Law.

_________________
I have kidnapped your sanity. You may have it back when I leave.
avatar
Haar_Dragon
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris

Posts : 12822
Points : 15588
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Somewhere...I think I'm lost.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:31 am

MOST of the Law Endings are bad. Both Amane's and SMTII's (from what I remember) are objections to that. And yes, I said BOTH of Amane's endings. I decided to rewatch her original ending and not once did I see ANYTHING about YHVH or his angels directly taking over the world and moving in, rather letting Abel do his bidding. And the only other thing mentioned is that "all sins will be punished by the Messiah." So the question now is, what constitutes as a sin in the DeSu-verse?

Well, according to METATRON HIMSELF, "All lies, doubts, and disloyalty shall be punished accordingly." So if those are the only sins according to YHVH's right-hand man himself, then that's pretty lenient.

https://youtu.be/Tc_0VrbaoXo

The ending, in case anyone wants to see it. Or you know, you COULD go and buy DeSu Overclocked for your 3DS, because that's the only version anyone should ever play.
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:55 am

Oh, no, they never directly move in and take over. I never said that. But I distinctly remember seeing that ending and thinking "...So basically everyone is living in fear that God will smite them." Granted, this is someone who has seen nothing of SMT 1, 2, or 4, and only played Nocturne briefly (Just started heading toward that sewer in the warehouse whose name I can't remember), so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass. But I still specifically remember thinking of it as essentially a totalitarian dictatorship.

_________________
I have kidnapped your sanity. You may have it back when I leave.
avatar
Haar_Dragon
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris

Posts : 12822
Points : 15588
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Somewhere...I think I'm lost.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Zeldaman2.0 on Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:46 am

Well Haar, you're officially near the Matador from where I remember... so good luck with that when and if you get to it. Figured I'd cheer you on at least before you officially got to that point, it's a hell of a doozy. And yeah, Law doesn't seem really fair to me whereas if you've got big enough cojones with Chaos you can make anything you want to happen. It takes force of will more than anything.
avatar
Zeldaman2.0
Beta
Beta

Posts : 2139
Points : 4062
Join date : 2012-06-05
Age : 22
Location : The sea of the Soul

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:01 am

What I do know is I fought a sub-boss that came out of a treasure box on the world map, killed it, nearly died, and was shitting my pants the whole way back because the enemies were way-high levelled. And now I'm in...is it Hakawa? Maybe. The place the barmaid tells you to go.

And thanks for the tip, but my PS2 is with my PS3, and I'm gonna be away from both of them until August at the earliest, September at the latest. Depending on a number of variables. It might be a while.

_________________
I have kidnapped your sanity. You may have it back when I leave.
avatar
Haar_Dragon
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris

Posts : 12822
Points : 15588
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Somewhere...I think I'm lost.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:26 pm

Matador isn't too bad, I only had some minor issues against him because my team was decent enough to take him on. Took a couple of tries, but I managed to pull through.

You want to know who's worse than him? White Rider.

Imagine if you will a boss always accompanied by two mooks/back-up dancers to hurt you and support him. Also imagine that this boss has an Instant Kill attack that never misses. And to add in the Atlus touch, this boss can whip that move out whenever he wants on whoever he wants. Oh yes, and until you beat him, this boss will constantly stalk you at EVERY SAVE POINT IN THE GAME with a chance that you'll be forced to fight him anyway if you try and escape from the save point's vicinity.
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:20 pm

Well, Kind-Hearted Doctor (I think that's his name) in PQ was something like that...until you brought up that Death attack. Holy hell, that is the most obnoxious thing I've ever heard. I mean...I hate when bosses have instant Death moves in general. I hate it when they have Mudo, for that matter. Question: Is this a route-specific boss or one that appears no matter what you do?

_________________
I have kidnapped your sanity. You may have it back when I leave.
avatar
Haar_Dragon
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris

Posts : 12822
Points : 15588
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Somewhere...I think I'm lost.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:40 pm

Fortunately White Rider, and his three buddies, are entirely optional... unless you're going for the True Demon Ending. And in order to get that ending, you have to progress through the Labyrinth of Amala in its entirety. Now the thing is, you HAVE to be at the Third Kalpa in order to trigger the Riders being let loose. Only there will that happen, so you can just spend time in the first two Kalpas without worrying about screwing yourself over.

EDIT: And before I forget, make SURE you bring a Valkryie to that fight. Trust me, you'll thank me for it. You can only get one via evolving a Dis.
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:30 pm

If fighting White Rider, bring Valkyrie...right. As for the rest of that, it might as well have been German. I generally save "true" anything endings for last anyway, just so that the "canon" is what sticks in my head. Speaking of which, I feel the need to applaud the Zero Escape series in which every ending is canon because reasons.

_________________
I have kidnapped your sanity. You may have it back when I leave.
avatar
Haar_Dragon
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris

Posts : 12822
Points : 15588
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Somewhere...I think I'm lost.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Zeldaman2.0 on Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:47 am

Actually if you also want to add yet another to the "main boss has two flunkies, one for damage and one for healing and support", then Kanji's Shadow certainly qualifies as that. And it's not like I was completely unprepared, just that he's a cheap shit and a wake up call boss.
avatar
Zeldaman2.0
Beta
Beta

Posts : 2139
Points : 4062
Join date : 2012-06-05
Age : 22
Location : The sea of the Soul

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:12 am

The True Demon Ending is just the name its given... although, it HAS been confirmed by the Dev team to be the canon ending of Nocturne. So thus, this is the second mainline SMT game to have a canon ending be established.

I don't really count Shadow Kanji because he's a mandatory boss, White Rider is an optional boss (thankfully).
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:20 am

So, here's an idea to maybe breathe some life into this topic.

Now, since we've all playing several of the Persona games, if you were somehow able to make your own Persona game what would you do with it? What would the setting be, what would the cast look like, what about the music, what are the antagonists, what concepts will be focused on, etc.
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Zeldaman2.0 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:55 pm

What would I do with it? Hmmm... that's an interesting question. I personally would set it straight in the middle of Akihabara with an emphasis on the otaku culture and the more livelier parts of it. I'd also set the mood of the game by the main 4 in the crew meeting up at a cool restaraunt, playing some funk from another country. The characters would probably look like a fusion between TWEWY and Shaman King. There would be an emphasis on funk, swing, jazz, that sort of music, with intense music switching to disco. The general plot would be focused on the concepts of freedom, what feels good, what feels bad, whether these are right or wrong, addictions and cravings, and ultimately how one defines a self.

The antagonist? Hmmm... Well, considering that Persona seems a little lenient, I'll say that the main cast were part of a small street gang that had some occult dealings. They kept their noses clean for the most part, but took what they needed and kept together. A big score turns into a sacrifice for demons though, and the summoning goes wrong. MC 1 and 2 take control of the situation and find that the idiot who summoned the demon got turned into a Shadow. MC 3, however, is the first one to realize their Persona, being a very protective individual. She beats the Shadow and the demon is released, and everybody books it outta there. The main four meet up again later that week and discuss it, but now they're realizing that things are getting a little weird.

Cue the antagonist, a former exec from... fuck it, let's say Kadokawa. Because why not, and it kind of fits. This exec, who was also involved in the summoning as a roundabout supplier, finds out about the summoning through his network of people and summons not a demon but a guardian to "help expand his influence". His Persona becomes whatever entity has lore around deals and influence. Maybe Hypno, god of sleep? In any case, this dude feeds off of keeping people addicted to media, and has a small, secret drug cartel on the side, which is how he keeps his money in addition to being a consultant. The man, in his late forties and in an extremely early retirement, begins letting Shadows run free, and due to their nature they tend to come out in dark rooms, at night or in deep shade.

'S all I got.
avatar
Zeldaman2.0
Beta
Beta

Posts : 2139
Points : 4062
Join date : 2012-06-05
Age : 22
Location : The sea of the Soul

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:04 am

Gangs members versus an evil corporation huh? That might actually wind up being a legitimate Persona entry if the Persona Team could just drop High School settings like a bad habit. So, because I completely forgot about this, and to somewhat celebrate the new trailer and delay of Persona 5, here's my ideal Persona game.

The Setting: A College/University Campus that’s located to a sizable town/city yet also between the suburbs. This is the place where the main characters spend their time as students as they live in an abandoned/very neglected dorm they’ve claimed for themselves. The surrounding areas are also very important as they serve as the game’s shops and locations to spend time when not fighting demons/other Persona users/engaging in plots. Just wanted to give a general overview of the area.

The Cast:
Bastard: Our Main Hero/Heroine (yes, regardless of gender the MC’s “name” is Bastard) who just graduated from High School/transferred from another college and is here now. Like previous Persona MCs, Bastard is supposed to be a blank-slate for the player… however, Bastard’s dialogue and action options show there indeed exists a personality to him/her… and that personality is of a jaded snarker who often has moments of being a complete and utter ditz. Aside from that, Bastard is the only person on the team who has any skills and experience with leadership and these are clearly displayed time and time again throughout the story.

Mask-kun: Totally not the useless and unintelligent bro-character the idiots who play these games can relate with (IE: Yosuke Hanamura and Daichi Shijima), Mask-kun is Bastard’s first friend who is clearly the smartest person around, yet also the biggest unlikeable jerk around as well. Prone to being asocial as well as mocking others for their inferior interests and lesser intelligence (in his eyes), Mask-kun manages to befriend Bastard after a few conversations and manages to warm up to the others as well as they join the crew. He is also known for the fact he’s always wearing some kind of mask over his face, but no one really cares about it. He tends to start up conversations about various comics and video games, but usually winds up cutting them short due to his friends having next to no experience/knowledge of them. Is also a Casanova Wannabee who tries his luck every now and again only to fail each and every time.

Muscle King: The Jerk Jock so full of jerk everyone practically hates him, but that’s okay because he hates everyone else as well. Has almost no consideration for other people and it remains a mystery how he got this far in life. Winds up being on very good terms with Bastard and Mask-kun after meeting the two at the town one night, especially the latter when it’s revealed they both subscribe to the same monthly comic anthology. MK tends to speak before thinking and comes off as incredibly rude considering he often at times uses slurs in his speech for various purposes due to his previously mentioned inconsideration for others. While not the dumb muscle everyone would assume he is, Muscle King isn’t the smartest guy around but none of his team mates seem to make fun of him for it… too much anyway.

Bookworm-chan: She’s got the brains and the curves, but not the self-confidence to stand out at all. She could one of the most notable people around, for her best attributes but she just can’t bear to try and make herself stand out at all. She meets Bastard, Mask-kun, and Muscle King at the Campus’ library and slowly warms up to them before joining the group due to how accepting of her they are after having several conversations with them. After having befriended them (and soon gaining Mask-kun’s affections/lusts), Bookworm-chan begins to reveal her often overly criticizing personality, noticing the flaws in others and talking of them as if she had none herself (and that only lasts for the subject matter). She seems to have several pairs of reading glasses that she seems to switch between… and often has accidental stalker moments towards her team mates.

Pants-kun: Introduced as an overly bishonen misogynistic chick magnet who seems to have it out for the crew, it turns out after practically saving him from a horde of demons that he was a she the entire time! Pants was the middle child in her family, her older sister being more beautiful than her while he younger sister was cuter than her, she had no way to truly stand out from either of them aside from hiding away her gender. After being forced to tell her story after the reveal, she manages to start befriend Bastard and his crew and even winds up joining them. While on better terms with the crew after joining, she still finds herself scolding and nagging at the rest of the crew if only out of habit.

<Other characters may be possible>

Plot: Despite his loss at the end of EP and practically being spread across the fabric of reality like butter on a slice of bread, Nyarlathotep continues to try and bring ruin upon mankind and win his bet with Philemon. This time around, however he decides to take a new direction and copy what his opponent has done time and time before. So thus, Nyarlathotep begins to pull his own strings and begins finding those he can entrust to act on the worst of humanity… and who else to choose but our main protagonists? Viewing all of them as the perfect candidates to follow his will, Nyarlathotep begins manipulating the events of the town so all of the main characters meet up to form a team. And what else brings a team together aside from outbursts of demons that want to do what they do best to every man, woman, and child they wind up coming across?

When the main cast finally all get together and start residing in their dorm that’s been either neglected or abandoned, they begin to formulate and plan not how to solve the demon problem, but rather deal with those they hate and act on petty vengeance and hatred for the first part of the game. They fight against various other students and even some of the educators of the college/university and fight them, causing their targets to awaken their Persona in response to their presence (haven’t thought about how the main cast get their Persona, but I’ll write that in later), but are still taken down, beaten up/murdered by the main cast. When this arc serving as an introduction ends, the main cast soon come across Philemon’s chosen… but instead of fighting them head on they instead choose to ambush them one by one, or even two at a time, to fight and murder them straight out… leaving their leader alone for the final battle.

When the time comes and the leader of Philemon’s chosen is slain to join his dead friends, Nyarlathotep decides to reveal himself to his chosen and announces his plans to end the world… except the main cast turn on him because as far as they’re concerned the world is theirs and they don’t need some “genderless eldritch sack of crap” telling them what to do. And so, after turning on their creator and giving him another trouncing for his troubles, Philemon appears before the main cast to congratulate them for saving the world only to be told to piss off as they proceed to go back to the dorm and remain living together through the remainder of their semesters on campus.

Themes: The game focuses upon the inherent evil that exists in the hearts of man. However, it also mostly focuses upon the labels of society. The meaning of the labels, who is given the labels, and who makes the labels. This is best demonstrated with the main cast, not only being known by labels given to them but also due to the fact that theme wise all of their Persona are mythological beings who were demonized by people (IE: what Christianity winded up doing to many famous named Gods/Goddesses). It’s only fitting that this Persona game continues the tradition of the series with its themes based on social commentary.

Gameplay: First off, no Social Links. They’re stupid and super dumb. Instead, the Fate System from Devil Survivor 2 will be incorporated into the game where you only need talk to important people (IE: the other party members and only a FEW NPCs) to make an actual difference in the story and unlock Persona for fusion. Furthermore, Party Members who have their Fates ranked up will receive stat bonuses and even elemental resistances. Secondly, Persona fusions will happen in a location that will either be an abandoned church labelled “The Cathedral of Shadows” or perhaps a rundown Shinto Shrine run by an misanthropic miko who seems to be working with Nyarla.

Battle wise, everyone will have two weapons. A weapon for melee combat and a long range weapon. Weapons for the cast are still being decided… but I’m flat out saying that Mask-kun will be using homemade explosives, Muscle King will be a brawler and grappler, Bookworm-chan will be using various books, and Pants-kun will attack demons with bicycles.

Music: If you’re expecting any sort of sounds from P3 or P4 you better back away because this Persona will have its OST be reminiscent of Digital Devil Saga 1 (which I consider to be Meguro’s masterpiece). So namely, the music will be rock music that seems to be inspired by Zeppelin, but wait there’s more! There’s also going to be a fair share of Metal and Grudge based tracks. What? You wanted something upbeat and light and from me? What a joke.

Banter Amongst the Party: I feel this deserves its own mention, but I want the party to be often exchanging dialogue with each other throughout the dungeon crawling segments and fights. Nothing like words of encouragement, rather most of them making fun of whatever’s going on, whoever they’re fighting, making fun of themselves at times, or even starting up Seinfeldian conversations with plenty of referential and take that humor. I feel this would really help drive home the group’s dynamic and bond as the game goes on and they start getting on the same level.

And I think that’s it for the most part. I was going to include sample dialogue, but I’ll only do that if anyone’s actually interested in this.
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:06 pm

I do like the idea of Anti/Villainous heroes, but...what's wrong with Social Links? Given that P3 and 4 are all about bonding (see: the ending sequence of both, wherein victory is literally attained through the power of love), it really only makes sense. I prefer the idea that every character has a unique portrait, and you have to figure out on your own which ones you connect with.

...And was it really necessary to take potshots at those two? There's really nothing wrong with Yosuke (especially when it also involves Kanji), and Daichi....while kinda whiny at the beginning, isn't really bad at all by the end. Atsuro is best best-friend ever, though.

Actually, kinda seems like you were in a bad mood, so maybe I shouldn't say too much more on the subject. Still, I do like the ideas presented here, even if they are a little edgy. Particularly the "every party member is kind of an asshole" part, as well as "and then they kicked the eldritch horror's ass and were back in time for dinner." And I think not telling us these characters' real names works really well with the theme you're presenting, so...all in all, I like it.

Unfortunately, I myself can't really think of anything "Persona-y" in this level of detail. Knowing me, half of it would come off as derivative/referential or just plain random. I might give it a shot when I'm slightly more awake, though, I've been tired the last couple of days...

_________________
I have kidnapped your sanity. You may have it back when I leave.
avatar
Haar_Dragon
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris

Posts : 12822
Points : 15588
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Somewhere...I think I'm lost.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:58 pm

First off, I'd like to say I wrote the first third of that some time before last night. Then last night, after getting slightly buzzed and missing the Super moon lunar eclipse because of craploads of clouds, I decided to write the rest of it. So, that probably explains the angry vibes you got from reading it. Because hey, you'd be aggravated too if you missed something that won't happen again for 18 years and alcohol certainly doesn't help that state of mind.

As for my beef with Social Links, I do understand their purpose and I liked most of the ones in P3 (P4 on the other hand is a different story). However, after playing DeSu2 and then going back to P4G (for a bit) I kind of realized how much better the fate system was. You just got more for what you did, you know what I mean? Like "Hey, X is resistant to Y now" or "Sweet, a new Demon to fuse" or even "All right, X can Joint Skill Crack/Special Demon Summon now." I know P4 did that somewhat, but thing was not every Rank up got me something additional (aside from Fusion Bonus XP) and that only applied to my actual party members. I don't know, maybe I'm just getting more impatient with my games because I'm getting older and I don't have the free time I had before.

As for Yosuke and Daichi, I hate them both because they're the worst bro characters simple as that. Yosuke was just inferior to Junpei (and Atsuro, who is the top bro for life and has yet to be taken down from his throne of brohoodery), but with P4G being made canon (because lolPersona Fanbase and lolPersona Team), this brought a new cutscene that just really made me lose any favor with him. I'd go into detail with that but I won't at the moment because this post would just be WAY longer than it's already going to be. As for Daichi, he's completely useless as a person; no brains, no brawn, no bravery. I was surprised when we had an SMT game where a guy like that managed to make it to the end, even WITH being given shelter and food by an organization (which only makes his whining worse, by the way). Hey, remember when Daichi crashed a truck into Dubhe, the exploding eldritch abomination from space, and allowed DeSu2 MC/Hibiki to kill it so he could save the day?

That moment was great... and then he NEVER does anything like that again until the fifth stage in his Rank 5 Fate Event (but then that doesn't really impact what he does in the story). You bring up him being okay in the end, but I have to disagree because he was all "EVERYBODY STOP FIGHTING 'CAUSE WE'RE FRIENDS" and then everyone proceeds to just tell him how dumb he is, even RONALDO THE HYPOCRITE jumps in on this and just furthers the burn by saying "Daichi, there's a time in every man's life when he has to fight for what he believes in." Now this wouldn't be so bad... but the group needed to form a unified will of how they were going to confront Polaris and Daichi had no answer for that (unless of course you managed to get everyone else's Fate Rank to three or four so you could get the triumphant ending, which also required a cutscene near the end of the game to trigger it). So yeah, Daichi is terrible and if more explaining is needed I will do that at a later time (although I don't think more needs to be said).

I honestly think everyone being an asshole to some degree is the best part of it really. It would be a breath of fresh air really, if you ask me, where in comparison every Persona protagonist has been like "Bad stuff is happening and the world is in trouble! Let's be heroes and save everyone!" Because here it's "Hey, we have powers and demons are having outbreaks over the place, let's go murder our enemies in the confusion and make it clear how awesome we are!" I don't know about that edge part though, none of this really seems like Linkin Park (because we all know those guys are musical edgelords, right?) album/song material and I would never try to portray it like that in any way.

Thinking of a good idea for a Persona game is hard, I must admit. It only really came to me because I had been thinking of some recurring things in the SMT-verse (such as Astaroth wishing he could become Ishtar again, which is also why Astaroth is Pants' Starting Persona and Ishtar is her Ultimate) as well as thinking of some social issues that never seem to be addressed these days.
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Haar_Dragon on Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:36 am

Ah, I suppose that accounts for it then.

Yeah, I can agree the Fate system is better than S-links in terms of actually being rewarding, since it still gives us character development as well as an actual bonus. The problem I had with it is that it can be kinda...spoiler-y. Like "Hey, this character whose allegiance is totally unclear? Playable character." But I do prefer how it cuts out the nonsense, from a party perspective.

Hm? I never had any problems with Yosuke whatsoever, but this seems more like a case of "to each his own." As for Daichi, I can't be COMPLETELY sure (only played El Psyduck's route), but wasn't his idea something along the lines of "just make everything the way it was before?" I sort of got the impression that his perspective was more along the lines of "we can't make a universal agreement if we can't calm down around our friends." He certainly seemed to grow out of being...well, insufferable. I'm not going to deny his being the least interesting best-friend character (though again, my experience is somewhat limited), but he was still above the likes of Keita (douche), Otome (who I found boring), Ronaldo (see Keita), and Io (see Otome). And is it really even possible to top the truck scene? Which...I guess you have a point, since prior to that it was literally invincible. That's kind of a case of "Probably should have saved that for later in the game."

As for being edgy, I just meant the "we're going to murder people because we can" bit. Perhaps edgy wasn't quite the perfect word for it, but again, I don't take issue with it. It's refreshing to come across things like that when most video game main characters seem to be...basically Goku.

_________________
I have kidnapped your sanity. You may have it back when I leave.
avatar
Haar_Dragon
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris
Terra, the Vir who Convelli Telluris

Posts : 12822
Points : 15588
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Somewhere...I think I'm lost.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Cremator of the Sky on Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:08 am

As far as I was concerned if ANYONE had a unique portrait in DeSu2, chances were they were a playable character (minus that one guy who almost everyone forgets about).

The only people I disliked in DeSu2 were Daichi, Ronaldo, Airi, and Keita... although somehow the latter is beginning to grow on me. I don't know how its happening, but it is. I also cannot remember how Daici's Non-Triumphant Ending goes so I can't really comment on it.

Honestly the motive is more acting out of pettiness than anything else. Though, it later goes from "We're going to use our powers to kill the weak people we don't like" to "Oh crap, these guys know what they're doing! Let's ambush them during their Level Grind sessions so we don't have to fight them all together later." So, a little pointless trivia here. Did you know Goku wasn't the first idiot in Shonen Manga? That title used to belong to Kinnikuman, who was way cooler and has an awesome manga that inspired a certain manga about pirates (I'd recommend skipping to the 26/28th chapter, it actually starts becoming a story from there). And on that note, Kinnikuman served as a basis for Muscle King.
avatar
Cremator of the Sky
Omicron
Omicron

Posts : 285
Points : 1800
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : The Ancient World that I have cremated and seeded with Metal.

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  NebulaGregarZX on Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:33 pm

Okay, so I don't exactly have crucial new information on Persona 5, but I've got some pictures of an article. If it's a hassle to read, I could scan it at the library.






...Is that legible enough?

_________________
Gstol, what the hell is your signature supposed to mean!?
TITAL Characters: Aleri, Rexial, Kiel, Sukiru, Aleri@Future(Aleri's ghost from the future) Leon(FFII, not KH), Seta Souji(P4 Protagonist), LaKuRo.
Org.XIV Characters: Aleri, Rexial, Xeromus, Adachi, Uchikina, Vita.
Planned Characters for DB Story: Redemi, Nobis, Matsuda.
To Be Introduced: Stice, Some jackass ghost, Rekoka, Raidou. Also some villains.

"Go forth, and set the world on fire!"
avatar
NebulaGregarZX
Aleri, the Vindex de Crepusculum
Aleri, the Vindex de Crepusculum

Posts : 6534
Points : 9221
Join date : 2010-11-01
Age : 21
Location : Castle Asylum

Back to top Go down

Re: ITT we rant about SMT and Persona *SPOILERS THROUGHOUT LIKELY*

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum